So Durianriders and his crew keep on lying about B12 recommendations in Japan… maybe because they never came across someone who could debunk their lies being able to read Japanese. So here’s my contribution to this forum. Proving him wrong… and explaining what’s this Japanese B12 fuss all about.
So Actually Japanese recommendatios of B12 consumption are not that different from Western countries. Japanese Recommend 2.4μg a day as an healthy intakel of B12.
Also we need to bare in mind Japanese levels of B12 will always be high due to the high consumption of Seaweed ( so are mine) but this doesn’t mean all of the B12 is absorbed. Humans won’t absorb most of the B12 that’s ingested with the seaweed. Like protein it’s better absorbed through the consumption of animal products. The only animals that can absorb these properly are usually ruminants and animals ith a digestive system better adapted to plant consumption. So in theory even if you have High levels of B12 in your bloodstream you can suffer from B12 deficiencies due to malabosrbtion. This also happens due to other factors but the main reason in Japan is the fact that part of the B12 comes from seaweed thus even if you have healthy levels in your bloodstream it doesn’t mean you are ingesting the right amounts of absorbable b12.
Also Japanese are very concerned about their health and you can find vitamin/ protein supplements pretty much everywhere… even in 100EN Stores( this doesent mean all of them take supplements but supplements are widely available there… more than in Europe anyways).
So here are the Japanese Links for anyone who can read it ( Proof I’m not lying)
http://ketueki.syanari.com/VB12.html (249～938 pg/ml)
http://www.oishasan.co.jp/calorie/v_B12.html (ビタミンＢ12の１日の所要量は大人男性2.4μg、大人女性2.4μg、幼児0.2～0.9μg、小学生1.3～1.6μg、中高生2.1～2.3μgです。許容上限摂取量はありません。
(第6次改定日本人の栄養所要量)
Translation [Vitamin 12 Daily intake for adult man is 2.4μg, adult woman 2.4μg, babies 0.2～0.9μg, primary school students 1.3～1.6μg, teenagers 2.1～2.3μg. There's no maximum intake.]
and if you want to compare here’s a link from livestrong link do Daily recommendations… as you can see they even recommend higher doses for teenagers than in Japan… so next time you’re going to lie… don’t lie about Japan:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/414607-what-is-the-maximum-daily-dose-of-b12/
Take care and if you have the links/articles that say the Japanese recommend more B12 ingestion than us feel free to share it… I think you might have misread it. Also I believe you might have come across such articles due to the Seaweed Interference but so far doctor recommendations are very similar to western recommendations and do not take into account their seaweed consumption
B12-Levels in Japan (Debunking DR and other 811 lies about it), 100% based on 4 ratings
Nice post ! thank u,
i always was wondering about that , and also why would japan recommend higher levels then any other place on earth!
My theory is they use this because it’s not that easily verifiable and most sources you find about it are vegan websites. So unless you understand Japanese you have no reliable sources to guide you.
I just wish people stopped posting misinformation on the web.
Updade: I found the source I was looking for. This excerpt is retired from the Japanese Ministry of Health and has what I think caused the confusion… ( maybe not… they are know to recommend more than average consumption of water and other stuff we shouldn’t be consuming so much).
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/shingi/2009/05/dl/s0529-4t.pdf ( This Page contains all of the Japanese Health recommendation valid now.
Quoting the 3rd Paragraph of the 3rd page we have:
Original:
[３．耐容上限量
ビタミンB12 は胃から分泌される内因子を介した吸収機構が飽和すれば食事中から過剰に摂取し
ても吸収されない50，51）。また大量（500 μg 以上）のシアノコバラミンを経口投与した場合でも内因
子は非依存的に投与量の１％ 程度が吸収されるのみである51）。さらに非経口的に大量（2. 5 mg）
のシアノコバラミンを投与しても過剰症は認められていない61）。このように現時点でビタミンB12
の過剰摂取が有害作用を示す科学的根拠がないため、耐容上限量は設定しなかった。
So what’s said here is that basically you need the intrisinc factor to properly absorb B12 and so even when administered in Children in doses over 500 μg only 1% is absorbed… so there’s no upper limit defined so far on how much you can consume because your boyd won’t abosrb it….
So well I believe that’s where they got the number… from this tests to see how much was absorbed… seen as they don’t know a word of Japanese they Just took the number out… et voilá… their creativity lead them to believe the Japanese cut out is 500 μg.
The other dosages are recommended on a daily basis and are consistent with western values even if bearing some slight differences in some Age groups. And all of the websites I ran through display numbers consistent with this…
This is not a link from just any website. It’s official recommendations from http://www.mhlw.go.jp/shingi/2009/05/s0529-4.html
I’m still reading the First Chapters because they have a more thorough information on how Japanese define the levels of Vitamins and nutrients needed in their Diet.
Also bare in mind Ethnicity/ Genetics , diet and the place you live in affect the amounts of each nutrient you need to ” thrive”. But I don’t think we’ll find anything new because they cite a lot WHO recommendations so … well.( Check at the End of This: http://www.mhlw.go.jp/shingi/2009/05/dl/s0529-4d.pdf)
Myth busted.
I’m ready to solve any other lie about Japanese nutrition they might create.
Oh and Okinawans are not vegetarians… trust me on that, even those who eat less meat/ fish by Jaoanese standards are not vegetarian.
Also they kill whales and Dolphins in that area of Japan and won’t let Japanese from other regions to get this information. Very few Japanese from the main Islands are aware of this. But yeah Okinawan’s diet was never exempt from animal products.
Ohh u probably know what my username means then =D.
Very good catch.
The bit about the Okinawans……… most claims about Okinawan health are usually towards a notion about their “traditional diet” which many would probably say generally excludes animal products. Like you mentioned though an air of secrecy surrounding some carnivorous habits could definately throw a huge wrench in how we perceive their diets.
How do you know all about them Okinawan mariners?
Yeah lol well I kind of always was fascinated about Japanese dialects and religions ( also food and cultural diversity)… and Okinawa and Hokkaido are more fascinating to me and I studied them thoroughly to prepare to learn their dialects/language[ I still have to find a lot of books because even In Japan there's almost no University teaching them) .
Also I have friends from Okinawa. In poor areas of Okinawa they used to have little consumption of Meat ( only due to availability and an environment that was not prone to raise most animals[aside from chickens and pigs]). This number however has increased overtime due to contact with China and The mains Islands of Japan. They did however have a diet rich in Shellfish and fish.
They also have an amazing dish with seafood an pineapple I tasted and was weird but tasty. It’s pretty much like a Salad in a way, very fresh.
Nowadays their diet is more and more like the rest of Japan. But they always ate fish and Pork. They wouldn’t eat other beef like in mainland Japan ( due to obvious reasons)… but they eat sea mammals. A tradition I’m sorry to say begun with Europeans hunting whales to extract the oil to produce fuel to lightning and left the remains there… (back in the 17th century or later) and they started eating whales. A lot of stories circulate but that is the most consensual story. Though this is what Okinawans say so the origins of that habit are not clear.
Either ways the best way to comprove it is really going there and stay for a while.
I think it’s best to assume everything that DR says is a lie, until proven to be true with factual evidence.
For all I care, he’s guilty until proven innocent.
Yeah, unfortunately he’s one of those people who make us skeptic of every single word he says because half of what he says is a lie… … or about 70%… so yeah I’m with you Carmen. It’s sad so many people get influenced by this… Also they target children and teenagers as well which is wrong.
Also it’s Ironic… can you think… the most natyral diet ” the one true diet”… Make you need to get shots and/or Supplements to be healthy… seringes must grow on trees…. I mean seringes are fruit so it’s only natural to take B12 shots lol
not that i put any such underhand behaviour beneath them, i actually disagree with you
it’s taken people who can read japanese to find the truth behind the claims, so maybe it’s not fair to expect this of harley…i mean he can barely speak english
being serious though, i think it’s far more indicative of a trend amongst these science-dodgers to stop looking once they have what they need….the mere suspicion, untrue or not, that this tidbit could be used in support of that which they are selling is enough to not ever have the motivation to look further…excused in this case for not being multilingual, but not in every other case where they practice such denial so easily
Wouldn’t the Japanese be getting some pretty solid B12 levels from all the fish and shellfish?
魚は大好き！:D
Yes, I recall H saying some such things about B12 (and pulling out selectively quotes from some book which when I opened, found quotes against veganism inside). Could you please give a direct quote of what H is saying? Even better, a screenshot if you can? It would be a good reference. I would like to look it up from my end on Scopus too (when I get some time on my hands for such hobbies).
:)
I also read in a Japanese article somewhere that High amounts of Potassium can lead to a faster depletion of your B12 so this would explain why Vegans on this particular diet tend to have more problems than other vegans that can go on longer without this problem ( Some even up to 20 Years until they get it). I read this on a Japanese article but I’m pretty sure that you can find this information in English websites as well.So from whaaT
I read B12 depletes your reserves of Potassium so pretty much what happens is people who consume too much B12 risk to have their bodies depleted of Potassium, and people who consume too much Potassium will risk B12 deficiencies seen as your body will use up your B12 reserves to try to expel the excess potassium. I only read it in one article so I’m not 100% Sure. I need to relocate it… but the information in it kind of makes sense. Pretty much like calcium and oxalates.
But also the article sayswe need to consume both because there are also studies that say that a Low potassium level or low Potassium level will have the same symptoms.A
Also B12deficiency may cause Hyperkalemia so when you sum this to 30 bananas(or even 10-20) a day … you have the recipe for disaster… (Read this in a couple of English websites) but this was only found in 2 subjects out of 570 in a Study… so it might be related to HCRV and not to B12 deficiency.
I find this Potassium- B12 dicotomy kind of fascinating… It looks like they kind of regulate each other in a way. I’d love to find more articles on it… but unfortunately there isn’t much research on it…. and I like to read original research, not blogs or news or other second-hand sources of information. Well I’m going to do some more research on this. This is quite intriguing…
But then again nothing new… this only further proves the need of a Balanced diet It’s pretty much the same as not eating too much protein other stuff.